The Sound of Identity - Post-film Q&A Lucia Lucas and James Kicklighter
Hello, everyone, and thank you so much for joining us for this screening of The Sound of Identity. My name is Ash Hoyle. I'll be moderating this post-film Q&A discussion, for which I am so excited to be joined by director and editor James Kicklighter and participant Lucia Lucas. Welcome to you both. Thanks so much for being here.
Thank you so much for having us. It's really thrilling.
Just start by telling me a little bit about how this project came to be. James and Lucia, how did you get connected, and where did this all start?
I was approached by producers Russ Kirkpatrick and Andy Kinslow about this event that Lucia was going to be doing at Tulsa Opera, and they asked me if I would be interested in making a film about it. Knowing nothing about opera, I at first told them that I wasn't sure what we should do. But once I started talking to Lucia, and trying to get a better sense of what she was about, what opera was about, and why this performance was obviously going to be important, I knew I needed to tell this story. This was something I thought was important and really culturally relevant to the conversations we're having right now around the transgender community.
And Lucia, what was that like for you? I know you're a trained performer, but this is a whole different flavor, on screen. What's the difference to you between performing on screen and on stage?
I guess it's two mediums at once. Not that there's really acting for a documentary, but you definitely can't erase the cameras from your brain. I was trying to prepare an opera role, and it was a role debut too, so there were a whole lot of things coming together at once, which made it complicated. But I hope that I gave a pretty good idea of what I do in preparation. I hope it was fairly genuine in that respect.
Absolutely. I think one of the strengths of the film is that it's such an eye-opening encounter, for many maybe a first encounter, with opera: with its history, with what goes into preparing a show. On that note, I'd like to know from both of you: did you think that this particular work, Don Giovanni, was apt for this kind of historic performance? You addressed it somewhat in the film, but did it resonate as the right thing at the right time?
For me, as I said, I didn't know much about opera walking into it, so it was very helpful to have experienced veterans like Lucia and Tobias Picker and Denni Sayers, who really know this world up and down. They were able to give me that course as I was filming. So I thought that taking a classic piece of work like Don Giovanni, which some consider to be the granddaddy of all operas, this thing that's been around for a long time and that talks about issues that are relevant today, and interpreting that in a modern context with Lucia's performance, was a really interesting way not just to explore the world of opera and introduce it to audiences for whom this would probably be their first experience with opera, as it was for me as a director, but also to do it through the context in which they were interpreting it, and the context in which Lucia was interpreting it. I thought that using that as a motif throughout the film was really important to explore both opera and the performance.
Anything to add, Lucia?
No, that's it. The really cool thing that James brings to it is a fresh take on opera, an inquisitive take: what is this about? What goes into it? For me, I think it was an interesting moment to catch, because it was such an important moment. I've been working in Europe for a decade. I trained in the US, but then I came here, and coming back was a very important moment. If I'd had my choice, I'm not sure that I would have picked that moment, because of how much stress was involved in it, actually. But I think it was really cool that we did get to capture that moment. If I hadn't done a good job on the performance in the end, because of all of that, I probably would have been sad about the experience. But I'm very happy that it happened. And who knows, maybe that extra energy, that extra adrenaline, really made the performance pop in the end anyway. So I can't say that the documentary didn't have any sort of extra influence on that.
And I have to say, for me that was terrifying too, obviously. Knowing little about opera walking into it, I wanted to make sure that we did it justice. But not just that: I knew how important this performance was for Lucia. It wasn't just me coming in and capturing a performance. It was one that was getting international attention. It was one that was important for Lucia's career. As a documentarian, your job is not to puppet-master. You're there to observe and follow the story as it goes. So it was really important to me to do our best to film what we were filming, but not get in the way of the real performance, of the real events that were happening. Because it's not me just making a movie. It's me making a movie about a real show that's going to occur. So you really have to balance what you're trying to film with the respect that Lucia has a performance to give, Tobias has a show to put on, Denni has a show to put on. You're part of their process, and you want to do that without getting in the way of it.
Absolutely. And you were balancing so much else as well: you had the press, this larger story, these larger questions that you were part of. Lucia, can you speak to what it was like to share that layer as part of the film? And James, how you included that strain? What was it like for you to wear this kind of advocacy, as well as being a performer in preparation, and in a documentary? Of course, that's a layer that's not quite in the text.
It's quite a layered event. It was the first time that I had seen my dad in ten years. That's just another thing that is completely separate but totally affects focus. That alone. And the first time performing in the US as a professional, and not just as a student anymore. The thing about advocacy, and the thing about being open, is that when I decided, yes, I am going to come out, it was kind of like, well, I can't be a stealth female baritone. There aren't too many female baritones out there. Not that there aren't any, but in the opera world there was nobody to look to, to see how it works, how it happened. So I've just tried to be as open as possible, in the hope that maybe it would help somebody in the future. But of course, giving a bunch of interviews is very different from a month of being followed by a camera. So I guess it was taking my idea of being open, and as honest as I possibly can be about everything, and just living that for a month, along with putting together an opera.
In something like this, you're only as successful as your access. For a film like this, we were very fortunate that Lucia and Tobias and everyone else in the film permitted us access to see their process and really take you through it. From a directorial standpoint, Lucia's advocacy was extremely important here, especially in the context of where we were filming. But it's not just about advocacy, either. The most important thing for me, as a director, was the process. I wanted people to see Lucia as a performer. I thought it was extremely important that you saw how hard she works, how hard everyone on the production works, to put together something that you're going to do over two days, which is so much work for two days of performance. I thought it was important to take you through that process while doing the advocacy, while doing the press, because that is the part of performance, not just in opera but in film or music or any other creative medium, that the general public just doesn't get to see. You see a final product, whatever it is, a film or an opera performance or an album that you listen to, but you don't see all the work that goes into it. So I thought it was important that we saw Lucia's talent. Not just her advocacy, not just what she's getting press for. You needed to see her as a talented performer, which obviously she is, as she just debuted at the Met. Those are things that you get to see in the film: how she's able to get from point A to point B. And then, for someone who may have differing views about the transgender community, I think you start to see Lucia as a person, not an idea, and that's extremely important.
Absolutely, and the layered approach is so appreciated. That's what we do as trans people: wear all these different hats and all these different layers in every space. You handled it so elegantly and you portrayed it so beautifully. I think it added a lot to the depth of the film, for sure.
I just wanted to say, in addition to that, thank you, James, for portraying me as a performer. I do many interviews, and I try to be as open as I can, but no matter how many interviews I do, it doesn't make up for talent. I'm constantly having to prove myself, and maybe even a little bit more, just to say, no, this isn't about interviews that I've done. It's not even about a documentary that happened. I'm glad the documentary happened, but I have to show that I still have the talent, consistently, all the time. And it was a big risk to show what's going on behind the curtain. There were multiple opera houses, big opera houses in the States, that came and visited. If it went well, it went really well, but if it didn't, who knows? Things disappear. But I think in the end it showed what I do and how seriously I take this, so I'm very thankful to James for that.
It absolutely came through. I'm wondering also about how you framed this from a technical perspective, James. The framing, the composition: it's so handsome. I wonder if you drew on operatic design in any way for how you built your visual language.
I'm so glad you noticed that. My director of photography and I have worked together for a very long time. In our initial conversations, as I've said, I did not have a relationship with opera growing up. I grew up in a town of 123 people in south Georgia. We did not have an opera house, so my experience with opera was what I had learned in music classes growing up. So Jonathan Pope, the cinematographer, and I, in our initial conversation, said: if we're going to do a film about opera, which is a heightened world, about a heightened art form that is in some ways dying and in some ways being reinvented, we need to give it a theatrical context. We don't want to treat this the way we would treat a regular documentary that is about history or something. It's about a live event that's happening now, and it needs a theatrical context. So we really did treat it like we would a narrative feature film that's scripted, where every shot was composed and every image was framed. We did not attempt to make it gritty, because we thought that would be the wrong approach for something like this. We wanted to really emulate the art form of opera, and that's what we attempted to do.
I'd say successfully, for sure. It's certainly evident to me. We're coming up on time, but I'm curious, from both of you: Lucia, in the film you spoke about how each opera has an emotional core that really drives its longevity and its relevance. What would you both say is the emotional core of your film, or what do you hope it to be?
I just hope that I came across as an honest and hard-working performer. But I'm not going to speak for the film, because I didn't film it and I didn't edit it. I'm just thankful for it.
For me, the answer is that the emotional core is what a performer brings to a performance. You're talking about the different layers that we just discussed. Within this film we have the layer of the event, we have the layer of the history, and we have the layer of Lucia, and all three of those are intertwined. None of them is separate from the others. So to my mind, while I was editing and directing this, and Lucia is talking about emotional core, and I don't know if Lucia feels this way, but as for me, it's about her dad. The core is her dad, and her reunion with her dad at the end, and what that means for her performance. So the emotional core is what we as people bring to our art, to our work, and I don't think that any artist can divorce that from their performance. It's our experiences that build us, that make us good and bad, and that is how we express ourselves through the work that we make. So to my mind, the emotional core in any performance, including this one, is everything that Lucia brings to the table in her life and how she expresses that through her work. That, to me, is the core of the film.
Beautifully said. I love that in the last stretch, you're building to this performance, obviously, but then you really let Lucia's voice, and your reflection, your emotions, drive us home. That feels like the right way to end things. So well done to both. Thank you so much for being here, and good luck with the rest of the life of the film.
Thank you so much.